How do you encourage seeding?

Say you have a fairly popular regular old website and you’ve decided to also make it available on Dat.

How do you encourage your website visitors to join the swarm by using a Dat capable browser or browser extension? —and then ultimately, how do you encurrage them to seed it?

Is altruism the only motivation for seeding?

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I was thinking a seed-buddies website could be a really big help here. We’d have to call it something cooler than that, of course, maybe “SwarmUp” or “DatSwarm”.

Basically just a site where you can post your site up with a short description, and a number of tags. If you find a site that meshes with your interests, you can mutually seed each other.

This could work really well to bond dats about similar interests together, homegrowing a mutual support network that could extend beyond simply re-seeding to include boosting each other’s content, collaboratively creating content, p2p tech support, etc.

I think it’s a better option than asking mere visitors to seed your site (not saying thats bad), because content creators // dat administrators likely have more skills, resources, and interest in helping the dat’s they seed to be the best they can be. Would you rather have your dat seeded on Joe Customer’s laptop, or Joe Administrator’s data center blade?

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Hi @Daniel and @krisradio,
Isn’t this a uphill battle you / we won’t win? I’m thinking of beaker more as a way to bootstrap the Dat protocol and make other browsers implement the protocol too. And in the other end, bridging the gap, you have dat.js, giving regular people access to Dat-content, even though you still need a regular web-server?

Anyway, I’m new to this and trying to figure Dat-stuff out =) So I could be wrong when it comes to what the intentions are.

@eklem, I think in general getting people to seed your websites is an uphill battle, yes. That’s why I would be targeting other dat developers over consumers.

As for Beaker vs. other browsers, a developer-oriented matchmaker for mutually seeding dat’s would be browser-agnostic. It’d just be a service to allow developers with likeminded interests to seed each other’s sites. Kind of like those “Sites I Recommend” sidebar lists, but with more punch – you’re not just sending traffic their way, you’re actually serving up the requests from that traffic.

Whether any individual dev mirrors their dat onto https is up to them. So you don’t need a regular web-server (although if you want to reach 99% of the internet – yes, you do). The matchmaking service would be totally independent from https mirroring.

Don’t sweat being new, dat is a lot for anyone to wrap their head around. :slight_smile: Thanks for the questions!

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The incentive is your real life relationships. If you have close friends or family, the incentive is simply baked in to those relationships.

I think d-web projects as a whole would be smart to specifically advertise to family units and friend groups.


Fleshing this out a bit more:

  • dWeb projects should have a social system baked in to them
  • The social network would determine the seeding/leeching relationships
    • I send a connection request to my brother, he accepts the connection, we are now seeding and leeching each others’ data (without necessarily seeing all of each others’ data)
    • Because I connected with my brother, I now have the ability to leech his friends’ data, but I’m not seeding that stuff because I haven’t connected first-hand yet.

I know @pfrazee is aware of this concept of coupling social with seeding/leeching concepts because he worked on SSB.

I think the downfall of SSB is that it’s extremely opaque to the user how the data relationships work. Users want to clearly understand (1) who can see their data, (2) where their data is living / being seeded from, (3) what data they are seeding on their own machine.

So the question is how to simplify it all for the end user.

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Are you proposing the dweb should have a social-system-protocol required?

I don’t agree at all. My blog has zero social features (no likes, no comments, don’t think it even has links to any social media) and that suits me just fine. Would there be benefits to adding social features? Yes. Should it be required to be considered part of the dweb, or added to the dat protocol? No. That’s far too constrictive of the many use cases for the dweb.

That said, by all means broadcast your dweb projects to family and friends (mine don’t care). That’s just expressing yourself and building stronger communities. That should happen for everyone, and it doesn’t happen enough.

But it should not be required as part of the protocol, or expected as part of the scene. And in fact word-of-mouth has no bearing on social media integration.

No, not at all. But it should absolutely be offered. How else could the network become more anti-fragile, if not for transferring your existing social network onto the peer network?

No, of course not. The actual protocol needs to remain flexible.

I’m not plugged into any scene, but why not? I think it would be a good thing if every developer in the dat world shared relevant dat files with each other.

Saying that “it should be offered”, universally, seems akin to saying it should be part of the protocol, if you ask me. It could be offered by individual developers, if they wish. That’s not the same as saying it should be.

I agree that it would be good if we can share relevant dat files, and I think developers in like fields mutually seeding each other’s dats is in particular an awesome thing. But seeding dats doesn’t need a social media ecosystem.

For what it’s worth, I think this is social stuff could be something that websites opt into using, or have a separate application built on Dat for the social seeding that people can start using if they choose to.

I think the unwalled garden stuff that’s going to be part of Beaker is the sort of start to getting people to play around with social seeding.